The Torino alliance

[Piemonte-Sardegna]

Hello everyone. Do you all remember the offer we received from Torino for a pact? After I received the latest telegram from their leaders today, I've become extremely uncomfortable with it all. Here is the telegram:

“Hi remember me. We planned on merging our empires to form a super-Italian empire? I haven't forgotten about you I've just been doing some planning. You see the name of the empire would be called the "Great Torinian Empire" and currently I am King. However that doesn't mean that I am dictator. You see parliament and the legislative body have majority of the power and we will have fair and balanced elections. Torino, Venice will be considered Dominions and will have 5 senators each in the house of senate. We would also form political parties and you would be a member of the royal family. I would make you Prince of Venice and third in line to my thrown. We also have an army in which some of your members if they are interested can have their own regiment. Together we can form one of the most powerful Italian Empires NS has ever seen. So what do you say? Oh and all members are members of the lower houses of Parliament, The House of Commons. Everyone gets a fair chance in the super-empire.”

I cannot accept Venice to be regelated to a second-rate colony. Venice is a larger region than Torino, and I don't understand why Venice should be subjegated and limited on the representation in their local parliament. What kind of fair and balanced is that? If we have a small amount of seats, what kind of power do we actually wield?

This is not only an insult to me, but an insult to all of you. If such changes progressed, all of you would lose your voice, our precious democracy that makes Venice so special would be lost. Venice as a government is free and independent, and shall remain so. It has now come to my attention that this "alliance" is simply a trick to have foreigners occupy the precious islands of our beloved city. Venice is strong and beautiful, and anything but the highest place is unacceptable for me and for Venice's noble inhabitants!

I propose a motion in the Senate to repeal the text that bounds us to Torino. Vote for Venice, vote for your FREEDOM!

VOTE AGAINST the "alliance" (or in reality, occupation) from Torino!

[torino]

Ok look.

You youself wanted us to create a superior Italian Empire. What I ment was that all members would have a seat in the House of Commons and we would have elections. I have never wanted to insult you. I have had no intention to occupy but unify us into a superior italian region. But maybe I was wrong about you. Maybe just a simple alliance of supporting each other will do then. No "occupation".

[torino]

Also I'm sorry if I insulted but you and I seemed interested. Don't say one thing and tell another. Tell me strait up that youre not interested. I can take it.

Also are you still interested in the non-colonizing, defending, keeping both regions independent but have diplomatic relations organization called "The Euro"

[Piemonte-Sardegna]

torino said:

Ok look.

You youself wanted us to create a superior Italian Empire. What I ment was that all members would have a seat in the House of Commons and we would have elections. I have never wanted to insult you. I have had no intention to occupy but unify us into a superior italian region. But maybe I was wrong about you. Maybe just a simple alliance of supporting each other will do then. No "occupation".

I was absolutely interested.....

However, when I saw the fact about Veniceb eing demoted to "dominion" and getting a limited number of representation, I became horrified.

If you want this super Italian region, Venice cannot accept anything lower than being co-top with Torino.

[swedishmatches]

Let's keep calm here.

I'm sure everyone understands the fact that we, being a small but proud nation, will not and cannot accept the terms of such an unequal treaty, thinly disguised as an alliance, especially that proposed by a region so much smaller than ours. We will only accept equal or superior terms.

That said, I am also sure that our region believes in the extension of the olive branch to as many as is possible, and would like to maintain friendly relations with other regions.

So, either change the terms of Alliance, or we could content ourselves with a simple Memorandum of Understanding with regards to the acknowledgement of the friendly relations between our two regions.

As things stand, I am going to say, "nay" to these terms, but am currently witholding my vote on this issue pending further refinement of the terms. Would our esteemed friend Torino deign to reply?

[marcuso]

I'm with Sernenissa on this. I vote to reject these unequal terms. As things stand now Torino as the smaller region should be the dominion of Venice in any future treaty.

[Piemonte-Sardegna]

Swedish Matches,

I am not unfavorable to a treaty establishing peaceable relations with other regions. Venice, though numerous and powerful, is not preparing nor does it want to prepare for any kind of military conflict. That is far besides the point.

However, just as you and Marcuso agreed to, lowering Venice's status from an independent region to a colony of a lesser populated region is unacceptable. The original proposition, before the latest telegram directly stated that Venice would be fully equal in this super alliance. I was originally enthusiastic because I thought that Venice would be catapulted to a higher status on Nationstates.

I cannot simply stand idly and then announce to the people that Venice would take on a subservient rank to Torino. As the current text implies, this treaty needs to be rejected. If Torino would prefer to open serious dialogue so to decide on a mutually beneficial treaty, then I am willing to do so. But, it is difficult to not see the current provisions as a flimsy attempt at occupation.

[swedishmatches]

Seeing that there is no reply from Torino, I've cast my lot for the continued independence and freedom of Venice.

[thespeechless]

swedishmatches said:

Seeing that there is no reply from Torino, I've cast my lot for the continued independence and freedom of Venice.

Same here.

[Piemonte-Sardegna]

The poll will last for another day....Tomorrow, Sunday evening, this poll will be closed.

If these results are confirmed (which they likely will be), then the bill calling for an alliance with Torino will be scrapped indefinitely.

[marcuso]

Aye

[lyena]

Hi, I just joined the forum and I say we should strive for as many alliances as possible (to create a united world) but only if the terms are equal. So no, I vote we shouldn't enter an alliance with Torino until they revise the original terms.

[Piemonte-Sardegna]

lyena said:

Hi, I just joined the forum and I say we should strive for as many alliances as possible (to create a united world) but only if the terms are equal. So no, I vote we shouldn't enter an alliance with Torino until they revise the original terms.

Overwhelmingly so far, there has been a rejection of the treaty. The only opposition against scuppering the treaty seems to have come from a representative of Torino itself, which will not count in the final tally.

I will close the polls, and announce that Venice repudiates any and all points of this alliance with Torino.

[torino]

New Terms

Article I

Torino and Venice will both be "superpower" or dominions of the new empire. In this they will form the Grand ITALIAN Empire. The founders of these regions will be members of the empire. New Canada City would be enstated as Emperor of the Empire and King of Torino. The founder of Venice would be deemed Prince of Venice, Third in Line for the thrown. Thus merging the Royal Family.

Aritcle II

Both regions as a whole will elect a President in which will form a cabinet and new government.

Article III:

Both sides will merge each others constitutions

Article IV:

No super region will over power another

Article V:

All members of the Venice Senate will be members of the Senate. All other non-senators whether Venice or Torino will be given seats in the House of Commons.

[thespeechless]

Cool.